Guinevere Gets Sober

Recovery news, reviews and stories, by Jennifer Matesa.

Suboxone Detox and Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome

We seem to have opened a little tin of worms here with the posts about Suboxone, starting with my interview with Dr. Steven Scanlan, a Florida detox doc who uses Suboxone and Subutex to detox patients off opioids.

People are writing in about Suboxone. It’s great that folks are asking questions! I need to emphasize (this also appears in my “About” page) that I’m not an expert or practitioner. I don’t dispense professional advice; I share personal experience. I’m a person with addiction who has been through the mill. I write from the place of “beginner’s mind.” The experience of detox—choosing a method; committing to it; literally waking up and smelling the roses—is still fresh for me, and the feeling persists in my daily life of being lucky to be alive. I write this blog because I used to take so many different drugs, and had lost control, and am now able to stay sober. I know there are solutions out there, some of which don’t involve being on drugs for the rest of one’s life.

And I seriously used to think I’d just have to be on drugs for the rest of my life. I’m only 46.

So a reader wrote in with a question about feeling really crappy post-detox. This person had been taking OxyContin for a little over a year, at between 90 and 400mg per day, but usually around 90-120mg. They ran out of cash and got their doctor to prescribe Suboxone. They were able to taper from, as far as I can tell, 16mg per day to one-quarter of a tablet or a film (they used both)—which, depending on whether they were taking the 2mg or the 8mg formulations available in the U.S., means they were dosing at either .5mg or 2mg per day at the end. It’s unclear from the way the email is written exactly what dose they jumped from at the end.

This is important, though: the jumping-off dose. Get to that in a minute.

They write:

In the last two days I have altogether stopped taking it. The problem is I have been experiencing extreme tiredness; major digestive issues, especially gastric reflux and an on and off “lump in my throat”; and muscle weakness. I am a middle-aged cardio athlete and I now have extreme sensitivity to air conditioning or temperature change between rooms at the gym. Overall I feel like I gotta be dying of cancer or something is really wrong with me! I am not sure how long this is going to last and have yet to come across an article describing Suboxone withdrawal and how long it may take for me to feel “normal” again or if that is even going to be possible? I am kind of determined to stay off the Suboxone as I believe is causing me lots of physical problems I don’t read about in the “side effects” articles. Is what I am experiencing “normal” and if so how long do you think it may be until these awful sensations and other problems go away?

The experience this person is writing about is called “post-acute withdrawal syndrome” (PAWS). What this means: after we’re done with the “acute” detox—the period of time in which the body is getting rid of the remnants of drugs still in our systems—there can be another phase of detox that is “post-acute,” when the body is still working to heal from the effects of our addiction.

Suboxone, like methadone (or any drug with a long half-life), takes a long time to be excreted by the body. It’s not like the day you stop taking it, your body is free of the drug. One nurse I know who detoxed from Suboxone put herself through urine tests, and could detect Suboxone in her blood up to three weeks after jumping.

One critical thing to remember about the healing process after detox: Opioid drugs hijack our body’s ability to make its own opiates, called endorphins. When we’ve hijacked our body’s ability to produce endorphins, and we detox, it takes a while to heal.

So ALL withdrawal symptoms mean the body is healing. Withdrawal is a healing process. (It sux, but it’s healing. :))

The symptoms of opiate PAWS include some of the ones mentioned in this email:

  • Persistent fatigue: endorphins help regulate the body’s energy; when we take extra opioids, it can affect our endocrine systems, which regulate our metabolism and sex hormones (many opiate addicts have experienced lack of sex-drive, women sometimes go into menopause, and men sometimes demonstrate low testosterone levels). When we detox, these systems don’t just switch back to “normal” immediately.
  • Digestive problems: this person has gastric reflux and a feeling of a lump in the throat; other people have persistent loose bowels and lack of appetite. Did you know that the brain isn’t the only place that has opiate receptors?—the entire GI tract is lined with them, especially the “gut” or intestines. Which is why opiate addicts usually experience constipation: opiates slow down the body’s “autonomic” functions, including digestion (and breathing, which is why ODs can be lethal, and why morphine is standard treatment for people at the end of life experiencing “dyspnea,” or breathing problems). When we detox, suddenly the GI system is shocked back into action, because there’s nothing numbing it anymore. It takes a while to settle down.
  • Temperature sensitivity: endorphins help regulate the body’s thermostat. When we take extra opioids, the body’s ability to perform this function on its own is compromised; when we detox, it takes time for the body to regain this function.
  • Sadness, anxiety, and pessimistic feelings: This person says they feel like they might have cancer, or that “something is really wrong.” Just as opioids numb certain physiological systems, they also numb our feelings. (Candace Pert, the neuroscientist who discovered the opiate receptor, calls opiates the “molecules of emotion.”) One of the main reasons opiate addicts choose opioids over other drugs is because these drugs are so efficient at numbing emotional life. But when we detox, all the feelings numbed out by the drugs come back, and because our native endorphin production is out of whack, it takes a while for our body-mind to begin to “feel” in normal ways again.

Who gets PAWS: There’s a ton of stories from people who have detoxed or tried to detox from Suboxone demonstrating that many of us experience PAWS. On the other hand, some people don’t experience much PAWS at all. A great deal depends on the differences between each of our bodies and minds, as well as how long we were taking drugs, what level we detoxed from, how low a dose we tapered to, how well we’re taking care of ourselves, and how much support we’re getting.

 

Tae Kwon Do

Tae Kwon Do: “Lies My Mother Never Told Me,” a memoir by Kaylie Jones, describes how the author recovered from her alcoholism in part through this discipline.

Some common-sense tips for managing PAWS:

  • Shorten your detox: If you want to use Suboxone to detox, try to stay on it a minimal amount of time. The many personal accounts I’ve heard, as well as some professional opinion, suggests that people using Suboxone to detox should try to use it no more than three to four weeks. Beyond that, the body begins to get used to Suboxone (just as it becomes used to any opioid after such a time), which can become a problem in and of itself. Again, this doesn’t seem to be the case for everybody.
  • Taper as low as you can before jumping, especially from long-acting drugs such as Suboxone. In Europe, buprenorphine is made in doses of .2mg, which is helpful for tapering to minute doses. In the U.S., tapering this low has to be done by splitting 2mg tablets into slivers of a quarter or an eighth-milligram, or securing the films, which can be cut to facilitate very low tapering. As an example, I tapered to .125mg (one-eighth) before jumping. Those who jump from even 1mg usually have a rougher ride. It’s estimated that 1mg Suboxone equals about 33-40mg morphine (in binding power). I wouldn’t want to jump from 35mg morphine.
  • Begin serious daily aerobic exercise, as soon as you know you want to detox. Exercise is one of the best ways to help the body restore its own endorphin production. … I detoxed in the fall. I was exhausted, but I loaded upbeat songs on the iPod and dragged myself for a 20-minute walk every day, going as fast as I needed to go to sweat. I also rode a stationary bike. My sleep and temperature regulation wasn’t great when I finally jumped off Suboxone, but today I sleep normally. Even better, I can cycle 30 miles, play 2 hours of tennis, clean the house; and two days ago I scored my first pull-up. (Yaaaah!) We do heal.
  • Ask for some kind of 3-D support. Work some kind of program of recovery. The way I look at it: when I broke my elbow, I had to do PT, right? I can’t numb out my body and feelings without doing some kind of repair work. I started going to 12-step meetings, and sharing my experience with and learning from others who had been through the same thing helped ease the anxiety and let me know I could get better. It doesn’t have to be meetings; it could be therapy, or a spiritual community, or a physical discipline such as Tae-Kwon Do—anything that helps us enlarge our perspective and grow.

A great resource and support for those detoxing from Suboxone is the Suboxone Forum at Opiate Detox Recovery.

Please share your experiences here, too. And if there are any physicians or researchers who can point to studies about PAWS and Suboxone, please give us a heads-up. I checked Ovid this morning and couldn’t find any. … Not that studies tell the whole truth, but this reader was looking for “articles.”

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50 Comments

  1. You interviewed DR. Scalan ? Amazing…people like you and the DR are pioneers in my opinion. I personally have a great deal of respect for Dr Scalan because he first of all has been there. But he recognizes the behavior of patients. The whole 1.5 years on Subutex I never went to a single meeting other than the Subutex meetings to get refills. Now that I am off the Subutex I go to meetings, have a sponsor and read the NA book. It fills that gap in my life that pills left. I beat myself up for the strategy Im using but if you would of told me there would be a day when 2.5 mg of Vicodin would actually do its job I would have laughed at you and took five 10mg Vicodins. But in my mind the war is not over, not by a long shot. My inner spirit is something Ive never been able to deny, no one told me to do this. I woke up one day and just had to. Strange, that after all the hell I witnessed in 2 deployments I would ever believe we have souls.

  2. I’m on day 10….And the fatigue is getting alittle better. But, the sleep sucks! I can’t sleep at all. My body keeps tightning up. I can’t believe the withdrawl from subs last this long. It wouldn’t be that bad if I didn’t have a baby to take care of. But, im doing it. I have to. And, i will not relapse. I came this far. I jumped from .5mg. of subs. It seems like everyone is different. I hear people saying they felt good on day 14. And I hear people saying it took 30 day…I hope I feel better soon. Good luck all!

  3. This post just hit home for me. I appreciate your honesty and for sharing this; needed to read it. Can we be friends? Lol How are you doing now, btw?

  4. Thanks, dude. Incredibly helpful and hopeful.

  5. AWESOME! Love that you shared that story!! I am on day 10 after my jump-off at 12mg/day Suboxone for 4 yrs. Day 3-9 were tough, but the hardest part is behind me. STICK WITH IT PEEPS…. Don’t turn back…. GO THROUGH THE FIRE!! God bless everyone… and thank you to our soldiers. You are HEROS! XO

  6. Congrats! I agree w/you about the vitamins and lots of water. Good job! I don’t think I could stay strong using opiates though. 😉 Everyone is different.

  7. Hello all, and thank you for your comments. I found this site after searching Google for “How Long is withdrawl from Suboxone”.
    I am on day 18. I stopped suboxone after being on it for exactly 6 years. I was tapered down to 8mg 6 months ago and last month my doctor cut me down to 4 mg. It actually made me feel the withdrawl symptoms. I have been planning to get off the suboxone for awhile. I have had some medical related issues because of it and felt that now was as good as any to stop.
    So I took time off of work and prepared for the withdrawl. Having been on oxycontin and other opiates before I knew what i was in for. I must admit the detox from suboxone is less intense. But what it lacks in intensity it makes up for in duration. Like I said I am on day 18 and am still going through withdrawl symtoms that I would associate with day 5 of and oxycontin detox.

    I never knew that getting off suboxone would take so long. It has been tough not going back to my doctor. My saving grace has been my supporting wife (a recovering drug addict of 10 yearss, my sponsor and my dog.) I know its going to get better. I am on the tail end of it. I suggest tapering as low as you can before jumping ship. And don’t stay on suboxone for 6 years.

  8. I am currently taking Suboxone and I feel that it has helped me to become a better mother, wife, and daughter, so I am totally grateful, but on the other hand, my doctor feels that some people need to stay in Suboxone treatment for the rest of their lives, depending on the patients addiction history. I am one of those people and if I have a choice of being on Suboxone and feel normal or more than likely relapsing and being on Oxy’s or any pain pills the rest of my life, I will choose Suboxone and life over pill’s and going back to the HELL that is addiction!!!!!

  9. Get off it as soon as you can. Over time it will eat at you even worse than the pills. I was on it 2 1/2 years and know the long term side effects.

  10. Update to my post above:
    I am now on Day 26 of my sobriety and it is full of mostly ups but the Post Acute Withdraw (PAWS) is present.
    Around Day 22 I woke up and it was like a new day, a totally new feeling came over me like a weight had been lifted. I had bursts of energy, positive attitude and was not feeling paranoid out in public. I pushed myself to do 15 minutes on the treadmill at least 4 times per week followed by some sit ups and lifting some weights.
    It is truly one day at a time. On about Day 23 I had a bad day, was lacking energy, slightly depressed and just wanted to lay in bed and watch TV but the next day was feeling better. I am not sneezing as much but the slight anxiety at night is still here.
    If adding insult to injury was not enough, I ended up passing a kidney stone yesterday. I felt it coming as it was my 3rd, not close at all to the pain of the first but it was ironic because that is the illness that introduced me to vicodin. This time I pounded water and took tylenol and it passed.
    My wife and I went out for a movie yesterday evening, I tended to my tomato plants, went and bought some work out clothes and made dinner for m wife, kids and 2 of their friends. This was yesterday and the best day yet in terms of activity.
    I can tell you exercising works, even if its small, you have to do it, push yourself, your in the fight for everything that is important to you. You CAN do it, and you have to save your life and your future.

  11. Another Update:
    I would read many posts and different blogs and would read diaries that would last a week or two and then they would vanish with no additional follow ups. So I am trying to keep my recovery story going in the effort to help at least one person.
    I am now on day 56 now of my sobriety!
    Since my last post I have had much improvement in my life both physically and mentally. The reason is that I have pushed myself to exercise, have embraced a healthy lifestyle of eating the right foods and have starting marriage counseling to help repair lies from my past use.
    Today I still have fatigue randomly, small amounts of depression and trouble sleeping and getting into a deep sleep.
    My life today is 180 degrees better than 56 days ago. I am a loving husband again, a caring father and have the energy and motivation to go out with the family and actually enjoy myself. I have to pace myself not to get too tired but am an active participant in life not just a spectator.
    I was reading an article in the Orange County Register today about the number of deaths from Opiods and how the coroner recorded 28 heroin overdoses and 140 prescription over doses in the same period. Women are outnumbering men which was surprising. Please do not be a statistic, get help, do whatever you need to do, your family and your future depends on it. Do not trade one drug for another (Vicodin to Suboxone) kick them all when you have the opportunity and drive.

  12. I tried every way to get off heroin. I finally got fed up. I would not recommend others to do it my way but it was what worked for my.1) I gave my sister my apartment keys told her to sell the place and put everything into storage.2) She took me to the Adirondacks I walked into the woods with a bundle of dope and 5 Naltrexone tablets and enough food for 2 weeks. I did the bundle and then did the first tab and let me tell you I thought I would die, I left the woods 2 weeks later and went into a Veterans 32 day Rehab from there into a 4 month PTSD program and from there to a transitional housing program I stayed here for 13 months All told i stayed in the programs a total of 18 months. I returned to college in this time acquired my CASAC,now I work with my fellow Vets, have a great woman and also I moved very far away–Yes a geographical only I left the past behind.I will never forget how sick I was—NEVER.wish everyone that they find what works for them.

  13. Im on day 12 . 16mg/day the first 9day days were mentally and physically hard. Now my appetite is back um sleeping good and i suddenly feel supercharged. Dont feed into the horror stories. Its all mental after day 10. Never turn back!! Goodluck.

  14. Are you saying you’ve detoxed from 16mg/day, or that you’re taking 16mg/day? Just trying to be clear. Thanks for reading.

  15. Nick(sub tapered many times)

    April 25, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Laurenavet…..Clone urself and mail me one to south florida, we’ll have fun and figure out the sober life together 😉

  16. I’m not sure if anyonr will read this today but I felt compelled to share my story and how I successfully got off subs
    Opiates were my doc..progressing from vicodin to percs dilaudids roxies oxys and then after a brief soberietiv heroin. I hit bottom fast and hard…lost everything. My job car credit relationship family and mind. If you’re not sure if you’ve hit bottom yet…you haven’t. Knew it was either help or death and so began my suboxone treatment.
    Subs saved my life there isn’t a question..however I do believe I was a guinea pig of sorts back in 09. Either way….I was started at 16mg a day and spent the next 2.5 years on subs. For the last year 8mg subutex.
    Never did I relapse…but was I recovering? No. Subs kept me in the same dark lonely lost place I was on opiates….just without the daily hussle and sicknesss. For anyone consideri ng subs…..they are NOT meant for lo ng term tx. I thought I had it made not having to wd off opiates……but I didn’t even realize subs created a deep dark depression in me. I had no motivation to grow or work recovery….I hated myself still and saw no light at the end of the tunnel. 22 days ago I had an epiphany…..by the grace of god ( and the past 4 months of na and aa) I realized subs were still keepi ng me in the dark and maybe just maybe…subs were having more of a negative effect on me than I realized

    I jumped cold turkey from 8mg of subs 22 days ago 🙂
    I went unti this in a profound spiritual awakening kind of mindset. I made the solid decision that this was it. I was done. 2.5 years is how long it took….but I had finally reached the bottom I had reached on heroin. Nothing left to lose.
    I mase the mental choice not to be in pain. I beleive and know the power of thought. If u program fear? Don’t even bother.if u program success and go into this with a NO MATTER WHAT mindset…you can do this. (I wrote it on my mirror)

    I could write a novel but if someone would have told me then what I know now…..I woukd have got off subs years ago! The physical detix is NOTHING compared to heroin ot oxys …it is so much more mild and albeit longer…it js bearable!! I kept having these profound moments of joy hope faith and love each day I realized I coukd do this. Subs keep you in the same fearful unhealthy place opiates did. Trust me beleive me….I had all but decided I’d be on subs for the rest of my life!!

    Days 1-4: prettt much zero wds. Mental clarity coming in like waves!!! Feeling again…happiness is so happy….everything is so funny and light. the moon is brighter….the trees are greener…I’m more sociable. I got a sponcer finally and got very very very honest. Went to my meetings and came clean about being on subs. Shame fear guilt LIFTED!!!! In being honest this weight lifted off of me!!! Daily meetings and programed success
    Day5: wds kicking in a bit but still mild compared to the hell from previous years. Fatigue…stomach upset….sleep very sporadic but forced myself to get up and get moving! Every day!!! Even if u don’t feel lile it! I stuck myself in the shower….made myself get dressed…and drove my ass to two meetings a day. The entire process of twleve step recovery began making sense…..I began considering turning my will over to my higher power….and as I did the obsessions the fear the shame…they kept lifting!!! I had the most profound spiritual awakening on day 5. I cried and cried out of pure JOY (this was alifetime first for me….) I felt god…lifting me shining through me. I realized I ddidn’t havr to keep trying to do things my way anymore…..I turned my will over and prayed fot god to show me the way and my god he did. (I’m not religious but I found my higher power. Something I never in a million years considered possible). All of a sudde. Everything I thought beleived and was started to change. Feelings thoughts emotions (positive) starting pouring out of me. I kept a daily gratitude list and yhey turned into journal entries much like this 🙂 Its been 7 years since my body mind and spirit had been opiate free (I’m 26yo). Things I didn’t think possible started to happen….I REACHED. even in 2.5 yrs on subs…..I didn’t reach for anyone! I was so isolated and alone and hopeless….and suddenly beginning at day 5 the world began to open. Like everything I’d searched for in drugs suddenly became possible right infront of me. Connection…spirituality….faith…a sense of purpose!!! I
    Absolutely mindblowing lifechanging stuff that I as many of you…deemed impossible. I’d been through too much…my life was too destroyed….until I got off subs I didny think it would ever be possible to feel how I feel now.
    Days 5-12: def the hardest physically. The fatigue is pretty intense. Hot baths helps a lot…MUSICCCCCCC!!! music will change ur life during this time. Trust me 🙂 immodium is a life savor…sponcer and people who know what u are doing is important. Dont try to do this solo (as I intendedto do). go I into this HONEST. This was the hardest part for me but tbe biggest peice in the shift. I got honest and allowed people to support me. Resting too much made me antsy so again I focused on forcing myself to be active in any way. (Helps to tire u out for sleep as well). I beleive I went to meetings all but one day…despite how sick I felt. Iwent. And always left feeling better 🙂 your higher power will work for you if you stake one step forward at a time and open your mind to faith. Openness honesty and willingness…..will change ur life!!

    Days 14-now (day 22): i feel as if ivr been reborn. Everything seems possible. Colors are brighter…the breeze feels magical….my eyes are alive and bright and i literally feel so incredibly powerful!!!!! Daily positive affirmations and prayer is very new for me….but in just 22 days has completely shifted my entire consiousness. I feel EMPATHY and compassion and love for EVERYONE like i never have before. I can FEEL the miracles hapoening in the rooms of my meetings…i feel this overwhelming need to give back and help any and everyone i can. For anyone reading this…thinking I sound like someone that’s different..that you’re different and it won’t work like this for you….it won’t if you decide it won’t!!!! Please if anyone is reading this…..subs keep you as much in a spiritual and mental addicted place as the other opiates. God I didn’t realize or know this…I thought I was just a destroyedperson and ththiat was all there was to it. If I had known that the REAL me was still inside I would never have stayed on subs for almost 3 years.
    Opiates trick your brain into feeling powerless hopeless depressed worthless shameful etc
    I WASNT FUNCTIONING…I AVOIDED PHONE CALLS, DREADED TALKING TO ANYONE…I wasn’t functioning and it was the subs. In 22 freaking days I feel like I’ve recovered more than all of the 2.5 yrs on subs. They will help transition u off hard drugs but to stay on them is to keep your mind body and soul stuck in the same sick place.
    I feel alive…I feel able to take on anything now. I placed my will and my life in my understanding of a higher power….and in programming posutivity and choosing for the first time in my life to have faith…a world has opened up to me that I never thought possible. The bills..court dates…tickets..etc don’t hold as much weight. Things that used to destroy me are just things now. Fsith just saved my life..I’ve experienced things I didn’t think possible. Those material thithings are just that….things.
    we

    OPIATES ARE NOT THE PROBLEM….THEY ARE THE SOLUTION TO A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM. we are all spiritually bankrupt. No drug drink boyfriend car house or job can ot will EVER fill that hole u feel insidde. I wish I’d started going to meetings years ago so I would have realized this sooner….the world is at all of your feet. reach into your heart and hold onto the one constant in all of us…..love!!! Choose to beleive in the miracle that’s happened for me….because its your miracle too when you so CHOOSE IT!! There I’d truely nothing to fear but fear itself. You are ALL WORTHY OF LOVE AND PEACE AND HAPPINESS. things I thought were for everyone but me…..I am livig proof of the miracle. And I am just. Like. You.

    I wish you all the strentgh courage and faith in this journey. Remember…..you DO have a very powerful role in your life. What you choose to think and focus on and beleive directly will dictatr your futhre. When I stopped beelivig I was powerless…and gave faith in this a chance…my spirit woke up and my soul I’d on fire 🙂 I have never been more grateful in my life. My physical life is still in shambels…but I am off of subutex and in a spiritual place where I NOW know…..my higher power will always take care of me anf I will always be okay…when my will is turned over to him and I practise ny recovery and get out of self and ego.

    I beg of you to anyone listeni ng. …..every voice in your head telli ng you you bc ant is a lie. Itd your disease….and its this fake bullshit substance that has your brain soul and spirit in a cage. Give your soul a chance….do this. Because u can. I already know u can. Go to meetings even if u hate everythig they say. Keep going back….evebtually the love and energy will strike a nerve. I found the famiky and love I always needed (but didn’t think I needed) in thise rooms. I woukd be nowhere without narcotics anonymous and aa.
    You are worth it. If u don’t bekeive so….I do. And a power greater than yi ur self knows u are to it is your CHOICE what u do with this. Don’t beleive the bullshit fear stories…they are just that…filled with fear!!! Throw fear in the trash and kill this! Because u can and will!!! Much love to all of you beautiful people. I love you all :))

  17. If you are reading this…get off them as soon as u an. Now. Do it now. I thought the same but 2.5 years later they destroyed my spirit mind body soul. They give a flase state of antidepressive effects for the first year.
    DOCTORS (LIKE MINE) THAT SAY U NEED TO BE ON IT FOR LIFE ARE FULL OF IT!!! I’m 22 days off subs and have my spirit soul mind and heart back! I can’t say enough but please…get off them before they rob u of ur soul as well. U aren’t living an active addiction lige now…free ur mind from the drugs its time!! Xo

  18. this was the most accurate synopsis, an exact echo of what i have told my girl who is 6 months behind me. perfect advice. “stay Off the message boards” For that exact mentioned reason. The fault is yours and yours only N to give up is only hurting everyone else around you…. BTW Chili’s release endorphins!

  19. I tapered a long time. I started hardcore about 4 months ago from 1mg. I now make a quarter pill (2mg) last 30 days, or .08ish dose daily for the last twoish months, with skipping day or 48 hrs between .08 doses last week. Working out hardcore, started while I was still on a daily dose. Eventually I felt like I could wait longer an longer the more in shape I got. So two days ago I ingested .08 and haven’t had any issues really besides fatigue. I believe there may be some unrest in my near future

  20. i wish i had the self control to taper like many of you lol. i could nver control myself, so i ended up on the last 4 days, 8, 4, 2, 2. that was 14 days ago, and aside from insomnia, which isnt really all that bad, its just boring as heck, and some light stomach issues, i feel FUCKING GREAT. i keep thinking though if it would have been easier if i tapered correctly, but i have a theory about that i’ll get into later. my worst days were 7-8, and t was anxiety and RLS. i havent drank for over a decade, but i was desperate and washed down 19mg ativan, 10 klonopin pills (i dont remember the mg.) with vodka and i still couldnt sleep, so ive pretty much given in and told myself this is how its gonna be and deal with it. honestly looking back, its not so bad. no cravings, no depression, no lack of energy right now. i just hope it keeps getting better, and doesnt go in waves.

    for the people that taper down to the less than 1mg doses, i wonder, bupe is a partial opiate agonist, but its main metabolite, norbuprenorphine is a full agonist. so basically i am wondering when you get to the .5mg doses, is it possible things are made WORSE because there isnt enough bupe to keep the norbupe off the receptors, thus giving you the WDs of a full agonist rather than a partial? please dont take this as a taper/dont taper statement. its just something im curious about….

  21. Thank you so much for this article and keeping it simple. I have questions for anyone who can help.
    I have been on suboxen for 2 1/2 years. I detoxed cold turkey about 6 months ago, I got really sick about day 4 of not taking anything then the real physical crap like muscle spams and reztlessness last about 3. When I told my doctor he convienced me to get back on ti keep me in track. FYI in these 2years I’ve not slipped once. But being an addict and still feeling good it didn’t take him much pushing. Even after all the hell I just went through. So here’s my first question I am now pregnant and am taking about a quarter every other day if I stop completely could detoxing harm my child in anyway?

  22. God Bless you, Sweetheart! Thank you SOO much for your passionate,ingriping yet brutally honest words. May Christ heal you and us all.

  23. Thanks a lot for ur help man and motivation. Be proud of urself and thank God for u still being sober. U motivated me to quit by reading ur story. Subs have been making me the same way ad they made u feel. I’m ALWAYS tired and everything else. Anyways thank man. I’m a 28 year old single father of a 4 year old son. Just wanted u to know that u DID reach someone!

  24. I don’t know how long you’ve been on the Subs or if you’re still on them , but if so their will come a day when you will notice that your life is not what you know it should be. I was on the Subs for over 3 yrs and I have a very addictive nature also. I jumped off of 8 mgs a day to none and yes it was rough , but I had enough. My dr. also acted like to be on them for life was ok. Well it’s NOT OK. If you don’t have any REAL chronic pain or ( you will feel terrible and hurt when you jump , but that’s not the same as chronic pain )something REALLY wrong then we aren’t meant to take these meds. They harm us physically and mentally. I understand how you feel , like you have a new lease on life , but we just trick ourselves into thinking that. I trusted in my savior Jesus Christ and spoke with Him during many sleepless nights and tired days to help get me thru. We were not meant to live like this and we short our purpose on this earth by staying physically and emotionally attached to this poison. I hope you don’t have be on the subs for 3 plus years before you figure that out.

  25. Normal is a cycle on a washing machine Dude:)

  26. I reallyreally like this. Thanks.

  27. Seriously, thanks for that. Ive just come off a roller coaster. Was on
    120mg oxycontin for 3 yrs for treatment of RSD. Told my doc in Feb i
    didnt want the pain pills anymore so he put me on Methadone. HollY
    FLIP! I moved to MD from CA 2 months ago thinking i could detox my self
    from meth. Day 12 and i was still FuBaR, had to go get acupuncture to
    be able to sleep.. My mom sent me 10 of her Sub Strips and i managed to make them last 20 days. Today I am on day 6 of no subs and feel like crap. My first day off the methadone tabs was Sept 11th and im
    wondering if im still experiencing some of the methadone detox along
    with the sub detox. She is sending me ten more. I want this to be
    over. DO i take the new ten until im furthur away from the MEthadone
    pills. Or do i just see this through. fudge i dont know??

  28. One thing that doesn’t seem to come up much in forum discussions for opiate withdrawal is loperamide HCl — aka imodium. Loperamide is nearly identical to fentanyl with the key distinction that it doesn’t cross the blood/brain barrier. 20-40mg loperamide 1-3x/day along with 100mg 5htp (the amino acid precursor to serotonin) to help with the despair that comes from your brain being out of opiates and unable to manufacture any of the endogenous happy chemicals that keep us able to get through our lives, was enough to get me off of a 4 year oxycodone habit averaging about 90-120mg/day. I did this for a couple months, gradually tapering the loperamide, along with acupuncture and exercise when I could stand to, and I had a relatively painless experience.

  29. you might want to consider rapid detox through the waismann method if you’re having trouble with tapering off.

  30. Hi,

    After reading this article, it makes sense but I’m not having near a problem getting of suboxone as my sister did (who had to go back to rehab) or others posting on this site. I was a Loracet and Xanax user for more that 8 years. 5 years ago I went to rehab and they put me on suboxone….8 mg per day. Well as we know, it doesn’t mahow much you take of suboxone, even a sliver will work just as we’ll as 8 mg. It’s all in the head. Fast forward to today, I am on my 6 day of detox coming down from 4 mg. I have the runs, I have to force myself to eat and all I have are the chills and sweats. It’s kinda like the flu but with the runs and a tummy ache (probably from lack of eating since nothing sounds apatizing). I think everyone is going to WD differently. Good luck to you all, stay clean and things will get back to normal eventually. Peace.

  31. hi I am new to this site and wanted to add in something that I experienced with all my withdrawls and detoxes from 300-400-mg oxycontin. if you know you will be dt or wd take care of any personal issues that you know may hit during the first week. in personal issues I am referring to any bills or important phone calls etc. the first several times I went through wd it never failed I had forgot that a bill was due and it became the most overwhelming thing in the world to me, it would plague me in my nightmarish sleep. anything and everything will become extremely overwhelming to you during this period. feeding my cat became almost more than I could bear and would have fiendish nightmares about it. idk if all of you understand what im talking about but that was part of my wd. so just some good advice from someone who knows this hell, just lessen your agony by making sure food is stocked, bills are paid, any scheduled meetings or phone calls are done or canceled ahead of time…if possible have a close friend of relative by your side taking care of you and your household chores. if that means telling them you have a horrible flu even than do that but please get help during this time..

  32. Well, I am on day 19 of being clean from suboxone. I was on suboxone every day for 8 years. About 6mg per day. Money became an issue, so I could not even taper off of it. Just quit cold. Very wrong thing to do. These last 19 days have been the worst of my life. Ive had 2 days, where I felt completely normal. But thats it. The insomnia, and restless legs are the absolute worst. Been on Trazadone for the past 9 days, 5 more days of that and Im done. Its the only way I can get any sleep at all. I guess what Im going thru right now is called PAWS. And it sucks. Im trying to take the amino acides for depression, and it helps. But nothing helps with sleep except trazadone. Not sure what Ill do after its gone, because Im not getting it refilled. Ive tried walnuts, celery, melatonin, etc. Nothing works. I guess being on Suboxone for 8 straight years has done more permanent damage to my brain than I realize. And now it cannot create seratonin etc, which is why I cant sleep much. Anyways sorry about the rant, just want these PAWS overwith. 19 days is a long time. SHould have never took suboxone for that long of period.. never heard of anyone being on it for 8 years or more.

  33. Im on day 19 being clean, after being on 6mg per day for 8 years. Its not the amount of suboxone you take, but rather how many years you have been on it. Im still dealing with PAWS, and still cannot sleep at all without the trazadone. But I will be done for good with that in a few more days. Then Ill have to figure out how to sleep on my own again

  34. Sorry it took me so long to respond and update anyone who was reading my story.
    December 17, 2013 marked 1 year of sobriety for me from Suboxone. I can tell you now it was the best decision I made. Over the past year, I listened to many “addicts” celebrate sobriety from pills but were on Suboxone. I did not want to pop their bubble but over time Suboxone is worse (in my opinion). Get off of it as soon as possible, do not settle for it being a way of life.
    I have spent the last year in counseling, repairing things with my wife and getting in shape. I think the best thing that helped me was the exercise in terms of getting over PAWS, it was hard to motivate myself to do so but worth it.
    I suffered from depression over the past year, and tried different things to get out of the funk and stay on an antidepressant still. The doctor gave me some testosterone gel to help get that started again and I will tell you guys, your sex drive does come back. You will also become regular and not constipated over time.
    Think about what you have to live for, what dreams you have and what the future will hold when you are free and clear from these drugs. God bless you all and remember to never give up.

  35. I’ve read several different anecdotal stories describing each owns experience with sub detox and withdrawals but none that were as relative, direct, thorough, and helpful as your thread here. I have many similar circumstances and share much of your motivational sentiment but have had the confidence a bit tested here on day 15. It seems that our first 10-12 days were very similar but my stomach pain and symptoms have yet to subside, might even be at its worst. The paws is definitely still having its way but mostly by way of lethargy. I’m encouraged that most other symptoms are behind me but the anticipation of waking up feeling well again is just as consuming as is the actual stomach pain.

    I have heard so many preach exercise that I may just force myself to break a sweat tomorrow but that may be the most mentally challenging task I’ve faced through this detox. Like you, this process has spanned the holidays and has been a damper on the wife and probably even the festivity spirits of my 3 young kids but after 6 combined years of opiate pain med dependency I’m not even sure they know or remember who I am when not affected by opiates. This has been motivation enough for me to overcome the daily wd grind but it’s really comforting to see others’ experiences and understand that I’m not alone in my dealings. I appreciate you taking the time to provide updates even after you were well. I know that no two cases are the same but most of us are familiar with the mental impact and struggle that is inherent with withdrawal syndrome. Without reading the experiences of others with similar situations, I don’t think it’d be as feasible to remain optimistic. For that, you are appreciated.

  36. I absolutely loved your post…SOOOOO REAL!!! Thanks..

  37. I don’t know if anybody is still posting, but finally I find a thread where people have stayed of Suboxone. I am on day 14 and am not feeling great. I have done it before, about 3 years ago and just remember the outcome. I was a total different person. People were telling me that they had never seen me like this. That I was so bright and happy. I remember doing so much exercise. I really think that is the key. Towards the end I could do 1000 plus push ups in an hour. But here I am again. No clue how I let it happen again. Now I have a girlfriend, two year old and baby on the way. I am having trouble staying optimistic. Reading the posts and updates are really helping, along with some aa meetings when I can. My girlfriend has given me very little slack, or sympathy. A lot of people online say its a 90 day process, and I am having the most trouble imaging that I will have to feel this way for another 2.5 months. Any help or suggestions would me appreciated. Thanks BCP

  38. These last 7 or so sentences really moved me. Im proud of u and i too.

  39. I’d love to hear your advice- I too was an opiate addict vicodin/oxy I never snorted it or anything like that I just started taking way to much and was afraid I’d be a dumdum and overdose and kill myself. Not to mention it was all prescribed to me by my Dr but since I didn’t know how to mange them 10mg turned into 30 to stop the pain or maintain my life, etc…. So I decide that I’m out of control and this habit is so costly and the point that I can’t live a day with out it scared me. I was on opiates for 5 years or a tad more. When I went into Detox I wanted to do it that way cause I didn’t want to taint my home or have my lover see me a mess. So I paid cash a very large amount and set off for a 30day treatment. 2 years later I’ve been on Suboxone and tapered within one month from 8mg to 1mg and jumped basically off from 2mg, id say. I’m more angered at not knowing more about this drug before I allowed it to b.. e my new addiction. The whole point of treatment was to withdrawl outside my home and now on day5 I’m pretty miserable. The pain in my back is worse and the fatigue..only the 3rd night I had restless leg and twitching and made a bath at 3am. As far as work knows I have the flu. I’m writing to ask if anyone can shed a little light what am I know lacking cause suboxone took over for 2years…what is my brain not producing at all or easily to help get me on track? I hear something about Tyrosine to build my neurotransmitters and needing to build serotonin again. If I knew that this drug was going to lead to another hard tapering and Paws I WOULDN’T OF TAKEN IT. I just finally decided to learn more about it this year and was upset . ANY advice? I’m going to try and walk my dog…it’s cold out so nevermind I will put in a pilates video. I’ve never written in to anyone but it’s time to get advice!2222
    Thankyou, SAM

  40. Sam, thanks for reading and writing in. If you search “Suboxone” on this blog you’ll find posts and comments from readers that talk about how important it is to eat well and to exercise while withdrawing from any opioid, especially Suboxone, because it’s fat-soluble and takes some time for the body to excrete the drug and its metabolites (waste products). Patience and diligence is key. I got better by exercising every day and by giving my body good food—organic protein and vegetables/fruits. Fish oil (a fermented cod liver oil) is excellent food for the central nervous system, especially the brain. Drink a great deal of purified fluids to help the body clean its cells. I detoxed in winter too, and dragged myself around the neighborhood in the snow. Good luck, and post back as you go along. /G

  41. To the point. I am ready to jump at 16 mg pr. day. I have been on 16 mg for 12 weeks. Just sounds better than 3 months. I am having trouble concentrating mentally. Beyond that it helped me greatly get through the detox from large amounts of pain med’s. Please, those of you that are wiser tell me first – is 16 mg for 3 months considered a short or long time of using Suboxone. Three weeks ago I stopped for 3 days and was very tired. It was the only symptom that I experienced. I felt light headed and then went back to 16mg pr. day. My doctor says I have to be on it a year and I disagree. I don’t like the way I feel on it yet appreciate its help through detox. I am thinking of taking one 8mg film every 3rd day for nine days and then ending it completely. I am under contract to produce a certain amount of work each year and I do not want to continue, rather can’t continue this drug and accomplish the contractual demands. I feel great in every other way. I never believe how I got here is any different than others as an addict is an addict, My using and tolerance came into my life after 23 surgeries. My body as an addict is no different than anyone else and reading the different stories has helped – please someone wiser advise on my plan and if 12 weeks is considered a long time on suboxone. God Bless each of you.

  42. 16mg is a high dose of Suboxone. Each milligram is roughly equal in binding power to 33mg morphine—you do the math.

    3 months is the outside for short-term use. Any longer than that, and you’re getting into long-term use, especially at that high a dose.

    You didn’t feel much by quitting for just three days probably because the half-life of Suboxone is so long—37 hours—and you’ve been taking so much, so it’s been saturating your fat cells. Even if you stop taking it, your body takes a long time to excrete it—and your fat cells will continue to push the drug out into your system. It’s not like you quit taking it today and you’re drug-free tomorrow. It takes a long time to get clean from Suboxone.

    Read some stories at Opiate Detox Recovery’s buprenorphine forum: http://www.heroin-detox.com/detoxing-buprenorphine-subutex-suboxone/

    You’ll see how different people managed to get free of Suboxone. If you want to be drug-free, you deserve competent help.

  43. Dear Guinevere,
    I can’t thank you enough for your quick response. The addiction specialist I am seeing is adamant about me taking it for a year. He says it takes that long for my brain to heal. I feel better than I have in years and I refuse to exchange one addiction for another. I was also told that 16 mg was the norm for a maintenance dosage. The doctor at the hospital that I detoxed at for 28 days said the same. I complained about the changing one for another to no avail. The nursing staff would say to me privately that they were very proud of me and they believed I was right in my judgement. Some poor souls that had been there 3 and 4 times for inpatient detox 28 days couldn’t wait until the medication window opened. Privately I thought to myself it seemed like the same addictive behavior’s I had on opiates and I told myself I am not becoming that person. I am going to take 8mg every three days 3x. Then I am going to start cutting them to do 6mg every 3rd day 3x. Then I am going to cut it in quarters and take 1/4 of the 8mg strip every 3 days 3x. And thats it. I am 62 years old and as I told my Pastor I feel better than I have in years and though the pain is more evident and my walking is not as good – that I will gladly trade living with natural pain than dying in misery as an addict always sick. May I e-mail you from time to time. A friend of mine took it for 6 months and after 2mg dose every other day for two weeks he cut that in half to its end. He said the only detox he felt was a tired, sluggish feeling. Being younger and physically active he told me that that was the worst of it and he never got more sick than that. I hope to communicate with you if that is okay with you. And may God Bless you or whatever higher power you may believe. I am
    truly grateful. Simply Black

  44. I can’t determine from your comments whether you’re saying you feel better than you have in years because you’re taking the drug, or because of some other reason. If it’s the former, then I question why you’re so insistent on disputing your physicians’ advice. If it’s the latter, I’d like to hear you explain your reason for feeling better and wanting to stop your medication treatment more fully, so that readers can get a sense of how you’re making your decisions.

    As it says on my “About” page, I am not a physician and I do not give medical advice. I share information and experience that does not take the place of qualified medical opinion.

  45. Guinevere – I should have stated clearly why I feel better than I have in years I apologize. These past 7 years I have had one medical incident after another which required the use of strong pain medications. At the end – my day consisted of trying to obtain enough opiates to get me to the next day. I tried detoxing on my own several times. The constant diarrhea 17 times pr. day minimum would then mix with blood and the dehydration found me hospitalized to get me hydrated and out of pain. I lost 90 lbs – I went from 210 lbs to 126 lbs. The diagnosis was Ischemic colitis and each episode worse than before. I was told I had early stages of gangrene that would require a bag for a time of healing. The mortality rate for men over 60 was 60%. At that point I was on 200 mg of ms contin 4 times a day. Along with 30 mg of IR oxycodone 4 times a day. My tolerance had grown to where I doubled each and on days I could only get 10 mg oxycodone I would take 10 at a time 3-4 times each day. Emergency rooms near me would see me come and have the IV bag ready for 2 mg of dilaudid every 90 minutes and they could keep me for as long as 12 hrs to get me comfortable. The addiction and tolerance had me heading towards death and I prayed for that many nights. I had to wear diapers for almost 2 years and they couldn’t keep me from messing myself. My waist went from a 36 to a 29. Now add this nightmare to over 20 orthopedic surgeries and that’s the life
    I had for 7 years of hell. My leg had been cut off at the knee twice to try and straighten a poorly healed leg. It was not successful either time. So I walk funny. 9 months ago I fell down 17 stairs and though I was lucky 2 days later I could not use my left hand. While in the hospital they did an EMG. The doctor looked at me and said your piano playing days are over the nerve was severed. Lots more pain med’s – these were poor pity me med’s. Everything I took couldn’t ease any pain real or make believe. I tried getting into several detox centers but long lists for waiting times or doctors unsure that I could do it. My call on Nov. 9th turned into a sobbing beg from me. They came and picked me up and returned me home 28 days later. I can now go places without a diaper. I am eating so well that in three months I have gone back up to 180 lbs and my waist is 34 and snug. I can make plans and keep them and even if I don’t sleep soundly because of pain I will always have – it is being dealt with and no pain med’s. I think I was misled regarding Suboxone as I was told it was like anti-buse just blocking me from using. So taking everything into consideration I am feeling better and more human than I have felt in years. Much better than I was but not as good as I want to be. Suboxone makes my head feel a bit cloudy and it is hard to concentrate on writing. And though I am much better I will not be beholden to this drug. I feel as though I should have been given greater information then I was. I was assured that after tapering off in a year I would suffer no withdrawal in comparison to the large amounts of opiates I took. I mentioned I have contractual demands and I do. I am not an invalid on this drug by any means – but I am not my best either. I am paid a monthly signing bonus for five years and though I have enough great material to get me by a year or so. I don’t want to be on any medication that hinders my creativity. And Suboxone does – am I better than I have been in years – absolutely! Am I a slave to another drug – from what I’ve read I think so and I appreciate knowing that 12 weeks is at the cusp of considered lengthy.I believe any one including myself shows a great determination to not use any crutch by the mere fact of finding this web site and reaching out to others more knowledgeable. I surely hope so. I remain grateful to you – SIMPLY BLACK

  46. MCHORSEGUY – I am so mad that the doctors didn’t explain this drug better. I am just at 12th week @16 mgs. down to 8 mgs last 3 days. The doctors I have dealt with are continuing to say a year before tappering. I’m doing it anyway – wondering what effin kick backs they must be gettin. I’m moving forward to jump soon this inability to focus and concentrate has me so upset. They mentioned none of those things, While in rehab I watched a man there his 4th time. He stood at that medication window 45 minutes early to get his suboxone. All I could say to myself was wow that was me at the pharmacy before I came here. Watching him and reading so many stories I am convinced if there is a use for this drug it is only in the first week or two of detox. It’s like I’m at facing detox again alone. I don’t care how bad I feel I can’t do this drug as a way of life. Thank you for all the insight – I swear at that facility all they lacked was music and Chief and I would have known I was in one frlew over the Cu cu’s nest. Thank you every one and my God guide and keep each one of us Simply Black

  47. My second blog today. I can’t express fully my appreciation for this site. The stories I read let me know I am not alone. I want off this suboxone now. I know it has to be tapered but I am gaining more and more knowledge everyday. My life is more manageable than it was prior to suboxone but I am left clouded in my mind. I will not live like this. I spoke with someone from American Addiction Centers. I said I feel like I may need a detox ( Medical ) from the subs. She told me that I wasn’t alone that they do that for people all the time. We spoke at length about me – 12 weeks at 8 mg. Last 3 days at 8 mg. This morning 4 mg. Guinevere told me each 1 mg is equal to 33 mgs of Morphine. Well at/near the end there were days I would take 5 200mg of MS. Contin. Don’t say ( Like Most People Say ) they don’t make that strength – they do. If not that I would take 30 perc’s a day. Ten at a time. Rebecca said stopping suboxone can make people quite sick and she is well aware of PAWS, I gave her this site to look in on as well. She told me to start with my primary care doctor and go from there. I see him Monday. The addiction doc tells me always – 1 year. It is interesting that he said by government regulation he can only treat so many pr. year. After 23 major surgeries there are days I hurt more than others. I welcome the pain not the addiction. He then started writing it for me for pain. I went to the drug company’s web-site and it says out loud. DO NOT PRESCRIBE SUBOXONE FOR PAIN. So the more I learn the more confused and angry I get. Rebecca at addiction center said they could get me admitted today for 30 days detox from suboxone. I said I can’t for the sake of needing to be out of state March 1st for contractual demands for the company I work for. I can’t think clearly, focus or get moving like the person I was prior to addictions, detox and healing. My dear friends and warriors – don’t get lost forever on a drug that is meant to be a mostly early treatment crutch. After Monday I may jump – if by March 1st I still feel like crap I’ll go back on 8 mg pr. day to get me through that week of work. I will update progress. Before I hung up with Rebecca from the rehab center she said Guinevere is right 12 weeks is the end of short term use now leading to long term use and harder to get off. I thanked her and she said one last time loudly – GET OFF THE SUBOXONE AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND IF YOU CAN”T LET US ADMIT YOU WHILE IT IS STILL A RELATIVELY SHORT TERM USE!!! SIMPLY BLACK

  48. Mchorseguy! I have truly appreciated your story. I began searching detox centers to get me off suboxone medically. 3 months @ 16 mg and tapering now. I want medical help to get through. Many health issues – dehydration for me with Ischemic colitis is serious. After trying to detox alone I ended up in the hospital a week. My pastor found me like this: didn’t know where I was – couldn’t see – could’t speak and when I did I was hallucinating – e-mails on the wall – went diarrhea 10-12 times a day in diapers – couldn’t stand like I was being pulled to the left. They moved my bed from the hospital window cause in bed I told them I was going to be pulled out the window. Tests showed colon starting to show signs of gangrene. Because of dehydration doctors said my brain was misfiring. In the hospital 7 days. Spent the last two days giving one apology after another. Saved by nurse that hugged me and held me and said – you were just terribly ill no more apologies. I beg anyone addicted get help, get off, get life. SIMPLY BLACK

  49. Im on day 30 or 40 of detox….I quit counting…..We only have one Suboxone doctor in my city and she moved. She gave me enough refills to taper down before leaving…..I didn’t follow the taper down protocol very well and came off suboxone when I was taking 4-6 mg. I’ve been taking them for over a year.

    First 2-3 weeks were tough. I have 2 sons, oldest being 4….. I work 12 hour rotating shift work…..This made it very tough….It’s obvious my motivation isn’t there, not social, stomach issues for 30-40 days now…..My moods are all over the place….Last night was a better night. I was happy, somewhat motivated…..etc..

    I have also been taking 30mg Adderrall for a few years….I’ve only been taking 10-15 mg and I take breaks on it,,,,The Adderall isn’t a problem for me. I take Celexa 40 mg….I plan to quit all of it…..Celexa being the last…..

    How long will it take for me to get my mojo back? I’ve always been Outgoing, etc…..I’m quite boring right now… Not having any physical withdraws anymore, but I’m ready to get back to my family in a normal way… Exercise helps me.

  50. Oh yeah the gift of subs that no one fully explains until you’re hooked. I stopped seven days ago – the third day I hurt so bad I hated myself for taking 4 percs. None since thank God. No real sleep but resting. Taking Tylenol and pm crap to try to help sleep. I spoke with a nurse from the rehab hospital that gave me no advice nor what this drug can do. He agreed quietly – I’m sure he wants to keep his job.
    These doctors are so easy to figure out when you investigate all there high tech training. I’ll take a Dr. Scanlan any day over these doctors that prescribe without a real concern for their patients future. When I first blogged that the Dr. wants me on 16 mg a day for a year while my brain heals. He calls it a maintenance dose. What crap is that. The company making this stuff made 160 billion last year. Hmmmm wonder if they care of the lives they ruin. Not that we weren’t pretty much ruined before this round of non-sense. What he should have said while my brain turns to mush, Thank God I am kickin after only 3 months. I weep at the stories of those struggling after years on this stuff. I’ve told my pharmacist he needs to educate himself regarding this drug. I woke at 5 am this morning with the worst stomach I’ve had in years. And it was a just plain weird feeling. I broke and took a 8 mg film suboxone. Proof that is what is making me sick. Since I took it my stomach stopped hurting and I have had a productive day and eaten well. I’m tired but just taking it easy tonight – writing enjoying the 60 mph winds were suppose to get for the next 40 hours. I’m certain it’s mother nature screaming GET OFF THE FUCKING SUBOXONE! My prayers are with all of you my brothers and sisters in this battle we will win. Don’t stop stopping eventually the pain has to stop right? Talk at me please.

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